tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post1417755826341193396..comments2011-03-25T19:43:09.000+13:00Comments on MetaEquilibrium - a weblog of half-formed thoughts: the waning of the dyed-in-the-wool faith-head society?Zachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03165270232683627981noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-40108598899785732102010-02-05T21:14:57.053+13:002010-02-05T21:14:57.053+13:00lol, I mean conversion rates.lol, I mean conversion rates.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135108034714165597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-45702351347076570682010-02-05T19:46:08.910+13:002010-02-05T19:46:08.910+13:00That all seems pretty plausible and commonsensical...That all seems pretty plausible and commonsensical. It'd be interesting to see data on conversation rates, but apparently that's hard to do properly. I'll just have to take your word for it (and your word is generally pretty good :P). Though just to throw in a counter-anecdote: my Mum still ticks Anglican on the census even though she hasn't stepped foot in a Church for quite a while...<br /><br />In the interests of a wrinkly pea reference: individuals with recessive alleles may express traits that were not present in either parent (wait... that would make atheism recessive - that can't be right). Identical twin studies tend to show the heritability coefficient of religiosity is remarkably high (in adulthood at least). This means that all Dawkins' stuff about dangerous religious memes is a bit silly - in fact only about 18% of the (adulthood) variation in religiosity is due to parental environment. The results are completely reversed when you look at the heritablility coefficient of religiosity in adolescents (i.e. it's all parental environment and hardly any genes)*. I suspect that this change has a lot to do with conversions in both directions.<br /><br />But really? You people actually like babies? They just cry and make mess and don't do anything interesting (curse evolution's big brain vs born underdevloped trade-off).<br /><br />*It just occured to me that Dawkins' meme stuff might not be useless afterall since a significant fraction of insane fanatics blow themselves up in adolescence.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135108034714165597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-5100284315866818092010-02-04T20:49:21.565+13:002010-02-04T20:49:21.565+13:00Two more points:
*Immigration - in our kind of dem...Two more points:<br />*Immigration - in our kind of democratic society, is likely to reduce the influence of established churches. I don't see conversions to other faiths, just Christianity is taken a bit less seriously and is less likely to be automatically ticked when there are other options - those who never go to church will be more comfy in our society ticking "no religion" or "I Love Steven Pinker" etc<br />*I know a number of atheists with evangelical parents and even more so, grandparents - the conversion thing goes both ways. I'd be happy to take a look at Pinker anyway. I realise his kind of psychology is a weak area for Christians at the moment; there are more Chr. social psychologists it seems - a pity, but in the next few years this may change! I certainly don't claim Christianity dominates everywhere atm, but that it is prominent anywhere would be bizarre to many proclaiming the death of God in the 19th C; but there are a few other stories leading from there!Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03165270232683627981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-89582965517330409252010-02-04T20:39:13.745+13:002010-02-04T20:39:13.745+13:00I admitted that nominal adherence has dropped - I ...I admitted that nominal adherence has dropped - I haven't looked at the statistics recently, but have seen many of them - church related organisations are quite keen on these kinds of things, as am I. Does this mean that actual belief drops? Nowadays, I suggest, if someone says they are a Christian they are more likely to actually mean it rather than something like "um, um, well I guess I'm a Christian as I'm clearly not a Muslim - and I was even baptised a Catholic/Anglican (etc) as a baby..." If this is the case, which seems plausible, then the actual drop in belief will be less and may even not be particularly significant, when we take into account other demographic changes as well. Conversions are important, as they buck the supposed trend and they keep on happening - I can point you to a few intelligent people in churches whose parents are not Christians; furthermore, as identifying as a Christian now requires more of a positive choice than prev, even ppl like me raised (mostly) in Christian homes can make a claim to a legitimate faith even to those obsessed with choosing for oneself from a position of "religious neutrality", as if this actually existed.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03165270232683627981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-33914155015513694402010-02-04T20:04:34.357+13:002010-02-04T20:04:34.357+13:00Oh; but Jesus Freaks are good at breeding! No sex ...Oh; but Jesus Freaks are good at breeding! No sex outside of marriage means marry young and produce a litter, plus we actually like babies here.<br /><br /><br />Fight - I like. “We’ve raised a generation of little boys.” Amen. Little boys with no brains, what is more. Of course, the stereotype is a bit out sometimes, but that's the nature of the stereotyping business.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03165270232683627981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8119667104340700001.post-1291999755318434532010-02-04T19:56:01.438+13:002010-02-04T19:56:01.438+13:00So to paraphrase (mainly for my own benefit): NZ c...So to paraphrase (mainly for my own benefit): NZ churches have been doing pretty decently of late, immigration dilutes the faith-pool, plenty of clever people are (re)converting, and the Church has become more polarizing. Plus God/Good definitely, without-a-doubt exist (just in case I had any doubts over your thoughts on the matter).<br /><br />I didn't know that NZ churches were doing so well (except those pansy liberal ones). Wikipedia informs me that the number of NZers describing themselves as Christian has dropped by quite a bit since the early 90s. Tis a curious juxtaposition. I suppose it raises the follow up question why/how has the church become more polarizing (and for that matter why an "unpopular minority force")? And you're not allowed to cheat and say it's all my fault again (flattering as that may be).<br /><br />As an aside, although there probably isn't a recessive gene for Christianity (what a terrifying thought - you could breed jesus-freaks!), there's good reason to believe that religiosity is to some extent heritable (along with political affiliation funnily enough). I really must lend you Pinker sometime.<br /><br />Anyway thanks very much for going to the trouble - it was a bit of a vague question I'm afraid.<br /><br />Oh one more thing:<br />www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/us/02fight.html<br />Not directly related but a bit interesting/amusing/shocking/ironic?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135108034714165597noreply@blogger.com